See also Part IV – Witness #8 – Dee Dee
Benjamin Crump accused the SPD of witness tampering and obstruction of justice in the case of this witness, Mary Cutcher. As you will see in the following documented statements, the only obstruction of justice and witness tampering was done by Mary Cutcher and Benjamin Crump.
“Mary Cutcher, said she was “so hurt and upset” that the police department had discounted her eyewitness account. “I don’t know this family. I’m only trying to help,” Cutcher said. “I think that they [the police department] are trying to cover up something that they made a mistake and, honestly, I feel like they’re taking the light off them and trying to discredit my statement. I can show you my attempts to contact them and their lack of interest in talking to me.” LINK
Crump added: “This is unprecedented for a police department to attack a witness statement during an ongoing investigation.”
Cutcher had talked to WFTV, and said she did so because she was getting no response from police. That interview drew an unusual response from the Sanford Police Department. “Her statements during the WFTV interview are inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police investigators,” the police department said.
“We were just telling the truth,” said the other witness, Selma Mora Lamilla. She said the two witnesses didn’t know Martin’s family.
Both witnesses told their story to CNN, which has brought national attention to the shooting.
Crump blasted the Sanford Police Department for attempting to intimidate and discredit the two witnesses. ”For whatever reason, the police department has chosen to ignore or attack their statements,” Crump said.
Attorney Natalie Jackson asked that Zimmerman be arrested today. “You have two witnesses,” Jackson said.
April 7, 2012 An interview with a woman who heard a Sanford Vigilante gun down a teenager on February 27.
Anchor: Darlene, Police only took a two or three sentence statement from this woman, how long did YOU talk to her?
Darlene Jones, reporter: Vanessa, I spent thirty minutes with her on camera and she told us her entire story.
Mary Cutcher: “The crying stopped as soon as the gun went off, so I know it was the little boy.
Darlene Jones: Until now she’s ignored repeated attempts by National and local media to share what she saw, partially, out of fear.
Mary Cutcher: So we said “everything ok, and he just looked at us, Selma asked him again, “what’s up, what’s going on, is everything ok?” He said call the police, kind of nonchalantly like ‘leave me alone’.
The police blew us off, and I called them back again and I said I KNOW this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling. April 7 – Channel 9 Team Coverage – Mary Cutcher
“The Sanford Police department ignored her and tried to discourage her” – Crump
March 16 – the afternoon before the 911 calls were released. LINK to below
Excerpts from Press Conference:
Cutcher: “I called Chris Serrino, left him a message, told him what we saw, what we heard, and that we don’t believe it was self-defense, and to this day (3/16), he has never returned that phone call. I would be happy to provide phone records. I would like for them (SPD)to show me ONE time where they attempted to contact me.” “Multiple people had my phone number and not one person called me back.”
“I don’t want to be on TV, I’m not looking for any recognition, the only reason I came forward is I was getting no response from the Police.”
Selma: “that’s what we told the police (same story), on Friday, five days after this happened”
**at this point Mary Cutcher starts touching Selma and looking at Crump as if she (Selma), had just blown their story of the police never returning their call, haha).**
Cutcher: “She made the statement that we made our recorded statements on Friday, I will add that ummm, like I said, I made multiple phone calls on Monday, after I talked to the one guy that gave me Chris’s number, left a message for Chris, he never called me back, two days later on Wednesday, her number was written on the statement and that’s how he got in touch with HER, I guess protocol (she was the witness after all). She tells me he makes an appointment for Thursday to come in at 9:00 am to take our statements down, he does not show up, he calls us and says, let’s just do it over the phone. So we spoke to him over the phone, and halfway through our statement he says “ok well it sounds like you need to come down to the police department.”
“So, the very next day I took off work early, we made arrangements and went down and did recorded statements.” (They were there at 7:14 PM)
**Gee, that’s a little different from, “TO THIS DAY Chris has never returned my phone call”, isn’t it.**
I believe in their statement yesterday that they said we finally came around to do our statements – not sure of the exact wording, but they made it sound like we were dragging our feet, but after multiple attempts, he never even showed up for the time that we had scheduled. Within 24 hours we did make it to the police department.”
“The police weren’t as apt to question me or get details. They didn’t listen and let me talk as long as you did.”
Reporter asks if Cutcher added or took away from the story that she told police:
“I didn’t take away or add anything to the story at all”
“In the initial, I don’t feel like they cared whether we made a statement or not”
“At end of questions, Selma INSISTS there were no cries for help, nothing at all, no words, just whimpering and then a shot. Mary is agreeing with her.”
**We KNOW this is not true.**
Mary would like an apology from the Sanford Police Department for calling her a LIAR.
Unfortunately for Crump, Mary Cutcher’s 911 call had not been released to the public until after their press conference that day. Fortunately for him, his followers were, and are, too damned ignorant to see the blatant lies.
Here’s what REALLY happened. Let’s start with Mary Cutcher’s very first statement to police the night of February 26, 2012.
Problem with the above picture, Selma was 245 miles away at a concert on 2/26/2012
First statement taken by Doris Singleton: On 2/26/2012, I responded to the above location in reference to shots fired call. Part of my assistance n this case was to collect witness statements from residence. I observed a female on the back porch of I asked if she had witnessed anything and she replied stating, No, but my roommate did. I requested her to find her roommate and ask if she would provide a sworn statement in regards to what she witnessed. advised she would look for her.
Several minutes later I met with Mary and her roommate, Selma. I requested a sworn statement but both advised they were afraid and did not want to assist in providing a statement.
Again, several minutes later Mary called me over to her porch. Mary stated that Selma decided she would provide a sworn statement and Mary would write for her due to translation. Mary provided me a written statement sworn to by Mary based on Selma’s testimony.”
Now, the 911 call made by Mary Cutcher:
NOTE: 7:16:56 shot rang out on first 911 call
7:17:46 Witness sees 1st policeman in front of her house.
7:17:54 is when MC 911 call starts (One full minute after shot heard, 1st officer already on the scene) LISTEN HERE
911 Do you need police, fire or medical
Dsp: ok, what location are you at
MC: I think someone’s been shot
DSP: Where at
MC: Oh my G-d
DSp: Ok, why do you think someone’s been shot?
MC: Because they’re laying out in the backyard and a gun just went off and they said call 911
MC: There are people coming with flashlights (yells “get inside”)
DSP:Hold on one second. And it’s in the back, of that back yard?
MC: It’s in the back, yeah
DSP: There’s someone laying in the back yard?
MC:Yes, people around him now (tells Selma again, get inside)
DSP: Do you know if it’s kids…or?
MC: Ummm, no. (illegible) It’s a black guy. (tells Selma to call Shirley and have her close her back door)
DSP: We have a unit on their way out there, what do you mean it’s a black guy? Is it a black guy that got shot?
MC: I don’t know. (she yells to Selma, “Is it a black guy that got shot?)
MC: No, there’s a black guy standing over him.
DSP: There’s a black male standing over him?
MC: Yeah, and then there’s people coming – you know what, I’m going to go upstairs and look out the window, I don’t want to go outside.
DSP: Can you tell me what the guy’s wearing?
MC: Hold on and I will. I think somebody else already called 911.
DSP: Yep, looks like they did.
MC: Ok, thank you
DSP: Ok, so you do see the officers out there with that guy?
MC: Yes, ok, thank you.
Call lasted 1:58
That’s it…that’s as long as the call lasted and as much as she said she saw. The following are the interviews Cutcher minimized by saying they only took a few sentences from her, or they didn’t call her back at all. Towards the end you will see how “disinterested” Chris Serino was in their testimony.
Phone Interview with Chris Serrino
CS: On Sunday the 26th of February,
were you at home?
CS: There was an incident that happened right behind your house, correct?
CS: Ok, can you tell me what you saw ma’am
SM: I was in the kitchen, making coffee for me and my friend, I have the window half-open and I hear somebody crying, like a young voice crying. So, at the time, me and my friend hear a shoot (Mary Cutcher in the background says “gunshot”). Ummm, uhhh, I thought it was just something like kids, you know, so I just walk out to my porch and I saw these two guys but it was very dark and no moon to the houses and no lights, so I saw two persons – one was landing on the floor, and the other one was on top of him. He was like, pressing.
MC: Like either pressing on his back, or, at that time both of us were outside. We weren’t sure if he was checking for a pulse, if he was looking in his pockets — when I grabbed the phone to call 911 Selma was still standing out there and saw the kid’s foot moving. It looked like the guy was standing over him and pressing on him is what she was trying to say.
CS: Pressing on him in the sense of, was the guy on the top on his feet or was he still laying down on the guy on the bottom?
MC: The guy that was shot was laying on the ground, we didn’t see but at that time and his face was down, it was planted in the grass. He was standing over him, feet on each side with his hands on the “kids” back.
DSP: Ok, prior to all of this, when you said you heard somebody crying, was it a sobbing cry..uh, uh…
MC: Like whining (makes sound uhhhh)
SM: I said, like, what’s going on? And the one who was on top of the other one look at me and he didn’t say anything. He turn his face, facing me, and I said, “what’s going on”? And he didn’t answer. For the third time I ask, “hey, what’s up, what’s going on?” He said, “oh just call the police”. By that time my friend she already…
MC: I grabbed my phone and I dialed 911 at that time.
CS: Did you recognize either of the individuals involved?
SM: It was too dark, I mean, if you, if you
MC: I didn’t recognize the child, the kid that was laying on the ground, I just saw him with his face down, but when the police rolled him over he had a shaved head, he was
MC:skinny, he was not very short it didn’t look like – he was a black kid, but very light skinned, more like olive. The guy that was standing over him was pretty medium, thick build, short haircut, dark hair, and I wouldn’t say that he was, I mean, that little kid was so skinny compared to him.
CS: Mmm, exactly, yeah, that was the impression that we all got. Umm, as far as…
MC: I can tell you there was no fighting going on when the gun went off because we were both in the kitchen making coffee with the window open and there was no fighting. The fight that happened was way down the sidewalk because the person on the very end of this block is the one who called the police originally because that’s where the fight broke out. Now the kid got shot way down here, you know, five doors down.
SM: We hear just one shot, we didn’t hear two.
MC: We only heard the one shot so I’m assuming the kid was already shot once and was crying and trying to get home but I know they were not physically fighting when the gun went off and we heard the shot and the kid hit the ground.
CS: Really, ok. Umm, is there any way I can get both of you to the police station sometime tomorrow? Or the weekend is fine also
CS: You don’t have to schedule it right now, you can talk about it tonight, but I think it’s imperative that we sit down and talk in a controlled setting and I can video tape the whole thing also. What you’re giving me is information that’s important, so..
SM: Can I ask you something?
SM: I’m so scared, I never been seeing such a thing in my life and I really get so scared that you let that other guy get out of the jail
MC: He never was arrested
CS: And the reason why he wasn’t arrested is something I, when I see you folks, I want to explain face to face. Umm, right now as it stands the information that you’ve given me thus far, I need to get really in depth with both of you basically. If he wasn’t shot during the fight, then we definitely have to do, ummm, an interview with both of ya as soon as possible. I need cooperation, I know you guys are giving it, but ummm, it’s something that basically needs to be done down at the police station and that’s why it needs to be done as soon as possible.
MC: Well I think her main concern is, the guy was released, he lives in this neighborhood, he has seen both of our faces, he knows where we live..
CS: And I’ll give you both my cell phone number and I can guarantee you, if I have to park in front of your house if you feel unsafe I will do that, your safety is of the utmost concern to me.
The person that we’re talking about, umm, is not somebody whose going to do something like that, he is, ummm, well like I said, I can tell you all about him, but she has nothing to worry about. Like I said, if I have to park my truck in front of her house to make sure she feels safe, I will do that – that’s how important it is. I would never put her in any jeopardy, I know she’s nervous and apprehensive, but uh…
MC: Well, but I mean, both of us live here, and we have no clue, I could not pick him out or his face, but if I saw him from being I could tell you.
SM: He could come to the front of my door and I’m not gonna recognize him.
CS: That won’t be necessary as far as ID’ng him, I already know who was shot and who did the shooting. The reason why he wasn’t arrested was because what he’s telling us is the only thing we have to go on. OK, and what you folks are telling me I’m unraveling little by little. It’s something different than what he is saying. He’s not a criminal, per se, the person that did the shooting,
SM: That can be the case – he might have got so mad and he didn’t think about the consequences. I think that’s clear. I think he’s got a temper
CS: Exactly, and
MC: I think he has a temper, and I think he got the crap beat out of him, he thought he could take this little 17-year-old and I think maybe he did in self-defense shoot him once but from what I’m being told there were two shots fired and the only one that we heard was the one that laid the kid out and killed him.
CS: Well, like I said, I can clarify for you when you come to the station. Now what I will do is exchange information with you, as much as I can and I am very interested in finding out about them not fighting at the time the gun went off. That can happen this weekend, like I said, anytime you guys say, day or night, you can come to the police station and sit down in an interview room basically and go over the whole thing, that would be very, very helpful.
MC: ok, and no one is going to know that we are involved in any way.
CS: We can discuss that also as far as the conditions of anonymity. I need direction. If I can get direction then I can get the person involved to tell me the truth. Anything further than that I will make it clear to the powers that be I don’t want you to be involved anymore than just giving me direction. OK?
CS: You’ve got my cell phone number, just let me know, ok?
MC: ok, what was your name again?
CS: My name is Investigator Christopher Serino, I’ve been with the Sanford…
MC: Yeah, actually, I think I have your number, I called and left a message on Tuesday… the other officer had given me your number as the lead investigator on this
CS: yes, I was out there earlier basically door to door all the way down that row.
So, this weekend, tomorrow, anytime, just let me know.
SM: Okie dokie
CS: Ok ladies, have a good night and if you need anything, call me.
MC & SM: ok thank you
CS: Good night.
The roommate Selma Lamilla’s testimony, her testimony is as if she saw all of this by herself, she never mentions Mary Cutcher being outside with her. LISTEN HERE
Second Interview with Cutcher 3/3/2012
CS: Ok, on the 26th, on a Sunday, can you tell us what you saw? Your were home, correct
MC: Yep, yes.
CS: Can you tell us exactly what you saw, what you witnessed?
MC: I didn’t hear any words, like help or No or anything. It just sounded like someone was in trouble or hurting or something.
We sort of looked at each other and started walking around toward the sliding glass door and that’s when we hear a gunshot – as I open the sliding glass door I see the kid laying on the ground, I saw the guy, the kids head was away from us so I couldn’t see like if he was face up or face down at that time. The guy was standing with his feet, one on each side of the kid and bending over him, and at that time I couldn’t tell if maybe he saw someone shoot him and he’s here to help or to check his pulse or, he was doing CPR, but you don’t stand over him like that to do CPR.
Mary Cutcher & Selma are witnesses 5 and 16
Selma asked him two or three times if everything was alright, he looked back and he acknowledged us but he didn’t really know what to say, he didn’t know what to do but he continued to stand over the body and he said, “just call the police”, so I then grabbed my phone but she stayed out there, I can’t say what she saw so I said, get in here, (laughs), get in from outside and lock the door. We went upstairs. The guy stood up and walked away, then he walked back over to the body, I can’t remember if he put his hands back on the body or not but that’s when I knew the kid was face down, actually no, that’s when I was still downstairs on the phone with the police and I walked back outside and he was standing up that’s when I noticed the kid was face-down and not moving and that’s when we locked everything up and he was pacing, not really pacing but he would take a couple of steps and like think, then he’d come back over to the body then I saw flashlights coming and the police were coming around the corner.
She went on to talk about how she felt he was shot twice because the fight had started at the first townhouse, by the dog walk. She had heard from neighbors there were two shots. She drew a map and told the investigators where Trayvon’s father lives. Both said they never heard screaming.
Crutcher will sue the police for lying about her and making her look bad
How many inconsistencies did you find?
Next installment: Austin Brown - 13-year-old eye and ear-witness. Saw and heard George Zimmerman yelling for help. Described the man on the ground wearing red.
Austin Brown’s mother - saw and heard nothing. Fifteen minutes of fame witness. Hired an attorney, lied to the public on Al Sharpton’s show.